Rewriting Masculinity: Veteran creative Stan Lake on War, Wilderness & Writing Your Truth

We're honored to talk with Stan Lake, veteran, writer, photographer, and author of “A Toad in a Glass Jar,” a collection of poems illustrating the intersection between the wonder of nature and the horrors of war.  Stan shares his journey as a creative, exploring themes of nature, war, and personal identity. We dive into his background in the straight edge movement, the impact of his military service on his lifestyle choices, and the importance of community and vulnerability in navigating life's challenges. 

Stan emphasizes the significance of taking action and being authentic, while also reflecting on the intersection of masculinity and poetry. The absolute peak of this convo culminates in an exclusive reading from his newly published book, 'A Toad in a Glass Jar,' showcasing his truly unique perspective on life. We absolutely love the depth of Stan's story, and hope you feel inspired to take action too. 

Connect with Stan: 

*StanLakeCreates.com

*@catchingcreation (IG)

Buy the Book: A Toad In A Glass Jar 

Patrol Base Abbate 

Transcript

Renee (00:00)
Hi there guys, we want to extend a very warm welcome to our second ever guest to the podcast, Stan Lake. Stan is a writer, photographer and author of A Toad in a Glass Jar, a collection of poems illustrating the intersection between the wonder of nature and the horrors of war. I already ordered my copy, so I'm so stoked to get that in the mail soon. We'll also link it where you can buy a copy in the show notes.

Mara DeMauro (00:01)
if

Renee (00:29)
Stan and I actually connected through social media by way of Dead Reckoning Collective, which is a veteran owned and operated publishing company that publishes the written work of military veterans. So Stan, welcome to Nosedive. We're so happy to see you and connect and be able to share your story. So tell us a little bit about you, your background, your time in a straight edge band, which is kind of like how we connected in certain ways too. And just how you became an author.

Mara DeMauro (00:43)
you

Renee (00:58)
nature enthusiasts, anything else you wanna let the people know.

Stan Lake (01:02)
Right, yeah, I heard your episode where you were talking about California Silver and Straight Edge. was like, oh, I can speak to some of that. So I grew up in North Carolina. I live currently near Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And yeah, I grew up in punk rock and hardcore bands. I did vocals for lot of bands. So as far as writing goes, I am a writer. I publish a weekly column on Substack. And then I also have a poetry book that just came out.

⁓ like you mentioned, through Dead, Reckoning Collective. ⁓ I've been writing most of my life, I'd say at least since middle school, poetry, just like bad versions of poems ⁓ back then, and they've gotten a little better, I hope. And then for years, I like a channel that poems into lyrics and hardcore bands, and I grew up straight edge, which the joke now is I'm not straight edge, but like my tattoos still are. yeah.

Mara DeMauro (01:39)
You

Renee (01:55)
While your tattoos are straight edge, yeah, yeah.

Stan Lake (01:58)
straight edge and like one inch letters on the inside of my arm. Couldn't get it covered up.

Mara DeMauro (02:01)
Hey, Stan, hey,

Stan, to give people some context here that might not know, kind of me included, can you elaborate for us what straight edge means?

Stan Lake (02:13)
Yeah, so Straight Edge, like the history of it from what I understand was kind of birthed through the band Minor Threat. And they had a lyric that said, you know, something to the effect of I'm straight edge, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't fuck, and I don't fuck with those that do or something like that. I can't remember the full layer, but the band was Minor Threat. And it created this whole movement of like a counterculture movement where instead of drinking or to be socially accepted, you went the whole other way. So I spent

my adolescence, you know, not drinking, not smoking, not doing drugs. I didn't even drink caffeine for like four or five years because it's technically a drug. Like I went pretty hardcore. And then it got to a point where it's like we started fighting people that weren't drinking. So there was still like a lot of anger. You had to get that stuff out one way or another. But like it landed to it in the hardcore movement in the music scene.

Renee (02:57)
Yeah, that's part of it, sure.

Mara DeMauro (03:01)
Hmm.

Stan Lake (03:09)
Because the music is kind of violent and it lends to that certain movements in the music where the beat will go half time to a breakdown, people dance and dancing looks like fighting and it turned into this whole thing. ⁓ I don't say that I'm straight edge anymore. The whole mantra behind that is if you're not now you never were because if you broke edge quote unquote, meaning you went back on your commitment, you can never claim it again. However, I do live a sober life.

I don't drink or anything now. ⁓ But there was a season when I came home from Iraq ⁓ where I did drink quite a bit because I figured I'm going to die anyway. I might as well try alcohol for the first time in my life. And then I used that to cope for like about a year after I came home. And I've gone through seasons where ⁓ I've drank a lot. know, never been a problem for me, but I would binge drink on the weekends and things like that. And then I would go.

Mara DeMauro (03:50)
Mm.

Stan Lake (04:07)
five, six, seven years right on drink a drop. And I think I'm in one of those cycles now where I just haven't, haven't drank anything or done anything in three or four years. Just, I don't need it. And I kind of have come to terms with like, I'm never going to fit in. So alcohol is not going to make it any better or worse. Yeah, that's a lot of my background with that stuff for sure. And in the book, as you mentioned, I was in like a vegan, a vegan straight edge band. So it was like one extra tier of this.

Mara DeMauro (04:22)
Cheers to that.

Renee (04:23)
Love that.

What extra step?

Stan Lake (04:34)
bullshit self-righteousness.

Mara DeMauro (04:36)
⁓

man.

Renee (04:39)
No, I think that's so like important for people to hear though that like, there's not just this one track way to live your lifestyle. You know what I mean? Like, like, I think you put it beautifully that it comes in cycles. ⁓ So yeah, thanks for sharing all that.

Stan Lake (04:58)
I think it's a lot of us just it's about being responsible. You know, I see a lot of people having like a resurgence of like pretending like they're in high school or college and drinking like, you know, shotgun and beers because some country musician told him to or whatever. And it's like, makes me angry. Personally, I got I still kind of like it's funny. Like I'm not straight edge, but that old like demon rises up in me. I'm I'm going to fucking punch you. I wouldn't. But still, it's like I just.

Renee (05:22)
Yeah

Stan Lake (05:28)
So I don't want to be around people that are drinking, especially when I'm not. ⁓ I just hate the culture.

Mara DeMauro (05:34)
Mm.

Renee (05:36)
Yeah.

But Mara, you you and I were even just talking about this like yesterday about, you know, being misunderstood and like being okay with like being odd. Like that's okay. And it's sometimes it takes a lot, like a long time to get there. But just you sharing your story and these elements, it's like giving other people permission to be like, yeah, fuck off. Like I don't, I don't want to do that. And that's okay.

Stan Lake (05:47)
Right.

Yeah. And again, I don't want to be mean to anybody either, like to each their own, right? Like, this is just where I'm at personally, but like most of my family still does, you know, about half and half, you know, drink on the weekends or do whatever. And it's, that's their thing. And, and we all kind of navigate around it. So it's, it's all good.

Renee (06:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (06:21)
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Renee and I were talking about the concept of like, why do we feel like we are misunderstood, you know, and like how kind of you use the word, the phrase self-righteous a little while ago. And I'm just like, because I'm pretty sure a lot of people actually feel the same way. But for some reason, I don't know, I guess I just I

That's what I am starting to really love about this podcast and hearing, you know, having guests like you on here is kind of hearing how we navigate that story and narrative that we have for ourselves that like we don't fit in or a little bit weird. And it's like, okay, but the person next to me feels the same way. And the person next to them also feels the same way, you know? So like if we really do have this shared kind of like, I don't even know what you would call it, like oddness, I guess that

Maybe it's really not so odd after all. And but the more we can be transparent about how we feel weird sometimes or may not fit in all the time, it gives other people the permission to like let you know, let their freak flag fly, you know, you know, like, come on.

Stan Lake (07:36)
Yeah, I think we're all kind of coping with insecurity in one way or another. Some people do it with substances. Some people do it with writing or surfing or whatever it may be, right? Like we're all doing it differently. ⁓ I've just found this way to work for me. And some people's like, nah, I've got to numb everything and I, know, whatever. And I get it, right? Like I definitely understand it. ⁓ I'm thankful I didn't get sucked into any deeper than I did personally, like when I was drinking.

My dogs are body slamming each other behind me, so I'm sorry.

Mara DeMauro (08:07)
Amazing. Yeah, we, I mean, we usually like to ask, or we're getting into the rhythm of asking our guests what and how you are living life differently. And what, yeah, how would you answer that? At this point?

Renee (08:08)
phone.

Stan Lake (08:28)
It's funny.

Yeah, like, I think I'm just snarky. um, there was a scene, I don't know if you guys have seen the Righteous Jimsons, they filmed it around where you guys are. There was a scene in the last season where one of the guys' father came to a wedding party and somebody offered him a beer and he said, fuck you, I don't drink it. He slapped it out of their hand. I'm like, that's, I like that. That's, that's where, that's where I'm at. But no, but no, I, um, I think personally, like, I don't,

Renee (08:38)
Yes!

Stan Lake (08:58)
I just, don't need, again, as far as living life differently, I don't need to social drink. I don't need to do things like that personally to like, to belong, right? Like, like I think I've, I've come away to where I can own my insecurity, my whatever in a way where I don't need that thing to cope. Although, ⁓ as I mentioned earlier, like it's a super stressful time right now in my life. And I'm like, if I were to ever do it again, which, and again, I'm not saying I never will drink again either. Like I, I definitely.

I'm leaving it open, but now would be the time. feels like, but it's the wrong time, right? Again, like I don't want to use it as a coping tool to run away from problems. And I think that's, if anything that I've done differently over the, over the last handful of years, I'm trying to face things head on as painful as they may be with as little help as possible. And, you know, I'm just gritting through and I, and it,

Renee (09:30)
it.

Mmm.

Stan Lake (09:54)
It turns into some good articles or some good poetry or whatever, you know, I hope. ⁓ but yeah, I'm just basically raw dogging life right now. So that's where I'm at.

Renee (10:06)
I think we're

all in similar boats just like with how life is and being on, like I can completely, I feel you on that. I feel you on that. Like sometimes it's not, this is the part in the times when it does test those things. Like it's not even really, I mean maybe it's a little willpower too, but this is when.

Mara DeMauro (10:17)
NAH

Renee (10:32)
you ask yourselves those questions of like, ⁓ shit, this is when I usually, and you even said it, like this is the time that I would usually reach for the thing that kind of masks or numbs. But to hear that you're like redirecting in a creative sense is a really cool tool to be able to tell others that like, okay, like instead of reaching for that, what I normally would do, facing it head on, and then you kind of find different layers.

about yourself too.

Stan Lake (11:03)
Right. I think too, it's also trying to find community, know, trying to find support. ⁓ Kind of with the things that I do, like you said before, Dead Reckoning Collective, they are my publisher, but they're also like a community. They've built a network of people where it's like an all ships rise mentality, right? So there's so many people in there that I'm legitimately friends with as a result of this like weird creative thing that we all do. And there's some other organizations called like Patrol Base Abate, which is a veteran organization. We do a book club.

⁓ There are things like that that kind of promote connectiveness and I feel like if you're not feeling alone and isolating, you're less likely to kind of dive deeper into that despair or whatever that would lead you using ⁓ alcohol or drugs or whatever it may be. Kind of having, like knowing that you're accountable, I think is helpful as well.

Mara DeMauro (11:56)
Yeah, community. It's huge. I find it really interesting, like the justification between like being a war vet and also like a poet and having those, you know, like something that's like seen as like so hyper masculine and then like, you know, something like writing poetry that is that can be, um, I mean, that's like straight from the heart, you know, and I, I relate in those ways.

⁓ because I also dabble in writing poetry and have hosted local ⁓ poetry shows here in Charleston, Charleston Poetry Fest with Marcus Amaker. ⁓ And so I'm really curious to hear like how that came about. Like I am really intrigued by.

Stan Lake (12:43)
Yeah.

I think that's one of the cool things too. Like, if you really look at history, right? Like lot of the poets ⁓ that a lot of us were inspired by were like men's men. Like, I don't know when it became like Asheville drum circles or whatever, but like before, like if you read the guys from World War I, like ⁓ think Wilfred Owen is one, like he has one called Dulce et Decorum Est.

Renee (12:58)
Mmm.

Stan Lake (13:10)
that poem will mess you up. Like I cry every time I read it aloud. Like it's brutal. It's talking about trench warfare and World War I. Like, but it's the rawest real stuff. And then you kind of fast forward to today, like again, with the dead reckoning guys, you got guys like Leo Jenkins who's in the Ranger regiment or these other guys that were just what I would consider like just bad-ass guys, you know, and we have women too, they're like doing this as well. So it's not just limited to the dudes, but it is weird that like,

Renee (13:12)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (13:39)
It's for a long time it felt weird to say that I write poetry even though I've done it longer than I've done anything else, but it has that weird like emasculating aspect to it where everybody just thinks you're just like, you know snapping your fingers and doing whatever like ⁓ I like it because it's like you're able to distill stories and emotions down to like their core value and get to the heart of things and it's a raw nerve. At least that's the style that I have. ⁓

Renee (13:52)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (14:07)
Growing up, I read a lot of Robert Frost and Poe and like all of us I'm sure did, right? But like, I really took a lot away from that, like speaking to nature, the beauty of the world around you. And then with the guys like Wilfred Owen and Auden and these other guys from World War I, it's like just a gnarliness of war. ⁓ But they were able to get to the heart of it. Even going further back to like Dante ⁓ way back, like I used to read.

Dante's Inferno, which is basically a narrative poem from like the medieval time. And if you want to write metal lyrics, just ⁓ FYI, just read some of that and you'll get, you'll learn words, you know, despair and all the interesting things. Right, yeah. That's how I spent high school, you know, just reading stuff like that and being like, I'm gonna make this a song that we can beat people up to.

Renee (14:44)
Take an excerpt from.

Yeah. Yeah, that like cuts you to your core. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (15:00)
Hmm

Renee (15:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (15:05)
Yeah, I guess I'm just really intrigued by it because like you said, like the man's man, you know, have always written poetry or, you know, and so at what point did this like narrative around like,

And I'm relating this in my own realm of the type of, the dating scene, actually, like if I'm totally transparent, of just like, there seems to be this divide of like men and the maturity level when it comes to emotional intelligence. And I'm kind of seeing parallels between like,

It's like, when did it become this narrative that having emotions and expressing emotion for men is seen as emasculating, when that's the most masculine thing you can fucking do.

Renee (16:00)
like weak.

Mmm.

Stan Lake (16:04)
Right.

feel like, like as a history student, looks like, you know, the fifties and sixties, like the beatniks and the hippies is when it started to kind of shift, right? Like we started, and you think about the nature of like warfare then too, right? Like we went from like a galvanized country fighting World War II to like Korea kind of got swept under the rug and then everybody was protesting Vietnam. And coming from there, like ideals and whatever else of the modern masculine man kind of started getting

I don't know, it shifted, right? Like, and we started being more decentralized as far as not unified against the war and all these other things. So I feel like maybe some of that, like, I don't know, like it helped shape the narrative, right? Of this isn't what guys do anymore. Like you're supposed to just shut up and suck it up and drive on and, you know, do the thing or whatever. But I don't know, is interesting. Cause like you go back a couple of generations and it was like all these gentlemen, right? Like.

legit dudes were doing this, but now it's guys to have like, you know, I don't know, like, I probably got like, used to be like vegan weirdos just, you know. I don't know, like, it's interesting though. There definitely has been a culture shift for sure.

Mara DeMauro (17:02)
Hmm.

Renee (17:17)
⁓

Mara DeMauro (17:23)
Yeah.

Renee (17:24)
Do you feel like it's hard? Because I think you mentioned like, you know, you've always written and you've always written poetry. are you, do you find yourself really leading into kind of that title now with like no fucks given? Or does it still feel a little like, ooh, yeah.

Stan Lake (17:45)
It still feels weird.

It is funny too, like with the Dead Reckoning thing, it's like there, we talk, Keith Dow, my editor, he's the co-founder of Dead Reckoning. And we were talking about like having them make a t-shirt that says something like, you know, our writers can beat you in a fist fight or something like, or our poets or whatever. But yeah, I just, would consider myself a writer. Like I'll say I'm a poet and stuff like this when I'm trying to promote a poetry book, but.

I just lump it all in together with writing. I don't distinguish one versus the other because I'm writing a poem today, I'm writing an article, an essay tomorrow, I'm writing a narrative, whatever, trying to write fiction the next day. So just, to me, I'm just a writer. ⁓ But I probably should own the poetry thing too, for sure.

Renee (18:34)
I mean, yeah, lump it in there for sure. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (18:35)
Bye.

Stan Lake (18:36)
Right.

Mara DeMauro (18:37)
Yeah.

What, like, you know, some, someone's listening to this podcast and it definitely sounds like I'm just taking bits and pieces of your story. And I know there's a million other details that make up your life experience, but at what I am sensing for sure that there's a lot of. The courage behind what you have done and what you choose to do and how you continue to show up in this world.

What piece of advice would you give someone who is listening, who's on the edge of going after something that they really wanna do? And kind of not turning their back to themselves and numbing out in whatever ways. What has really helped you along?

Stan Lake (19:25)
I I would say like stop aspiring and just start doing, right? Like it's easy to want to do something. It's hard as hell to like show up and do it. Like one thing I've personally tried to do as a discipline, I put out an article on Substack every Friday. They're not all ballpark, like knock them out of the park articles, right? But like for me, I'm looking at it less as an analytic of like, I'm going to go viral with this one and more of like I showed up, I wrote an article, I had discipline and I...

I it. I said I was gonna do it and I did it. ⁓ And out of that, I've become a better writer, right? Like again, I'm not killing it doing those, but there's a handful of people that enjoy them. ⁓ But it's for me, right? At end of the day, like I'm doing this to invest in myself and be a better version of myself because I had to show up and I had to do it. As far as writing goes, there's no trick. Like the only way to get better at writing is to write. And I would venture to say it's with

a lot of other things. I'm a photographer too. My camera is very dusty. I took a handful of pictures a few months ago or a few weeks ago and it was a little bit more challenging than it used to be. I pulled it off, but it's muscle memory. All these things, atrophy. Even thinking back to the military, all these guys that got out of the military, I've been home from Iraq almost 20 years, 19 years.

Renee (20:40)
Mmm.

Stan Lake (20:51)
to think that I could do anything that I could do then, I can't do any of it. But you know, mostly he's got like, I'm a patriot. can still do whatever. Like brother, can't. Like, if you're not practicing or you're not doing, you know, it's with anything, right? think it's, so if somebody's on the fence, I would just simply say, believe in yourself and invest in yourself, but like get moving. Like you're not gonna get any better.

Renee (20:59)
You can't. Brother, you can't.

Mara DeMauro (20:59)
Haha!

Brother, sit down.

Renee (21:05)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (21:19)
wishing you were doing it. So just start, it's gonna suck. Every first draft is bullshit anyway, so just get something on the page and keep going. Editing is where it happens, just getting it out of your head, right?

Mara DeMauro (21:31)
Get it out of your head. Yes. You know something, I don't know if you all relate to this at all, but I can just doom scroll, you know, on TikTok or something. And if I am learning about something that I want to do, it almost makes me feel like I am doing that thing. Do you know what I mean? And that is such, it's such a trap because it's like, no, like

Renee (21:43)
Hoya.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mara DeMauro (22:00)
I'm not actually doing that thing. I'm watching other people fucking do the thing I want to do. But by watching it, it's like the dopamine is just like, yeah, I'm doing it. It's like, no, you're not.

Renee (22:05)
Dude, yes.

Yeah, think

I can't remember who told me this. It was either like one of my coaches or I saw somebody post something about this and it was like, you can sit and read and learn about whatever topic it is and get to like the depths of it and read like 200 something books, whatever it is about it. But until you actually go out there and do the fucking thing, you're not gonna be an expert at it. You're just not.

Mara DeMauro (22:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Stan Lake (22:41)
It's just theory. It's theory at

that point. And you put it in practice, I mean, it doesn't matter, So.

Renee (22:43)
Yeah, exactly!

Mara DeMauro (22:47)
Yeah, that's

Renee (22:48)
Totally.

Mara DeMauro (22:48)
kind of funny

though. Like something's clicking for me right now because I was reflecting on how I love hearing people's and how lived experience resonates with me so much more than reading like a textbook. And it's always been like that for me. But it's almost as if I'm like talk. I love talking to people and hearing their stories.

just as much, it's like the same thing as when I'm scrolling. It's like I'm living through other people, not necessarily like doing it myself. So that's kind of interesting to think about, but I'm like, hmm.

Stan Lake (23:24)
It's easy to do. I

find myself reading a lot of memoirs and stuff like that. I enjoy them and then I'm like, why would I write one? Who's gonna read that? But it's interesting, right? I'm with you on that. I'll sit there and read other people's stories and look into things and wanna hear what you're talking about. All the while, I'm like, I haven't done anything to move me forward at all.

Mara DeMauro (23:46)
You

Renee (23:47)
Yes, you're like, wait, shit, what did I do today? What am I doing?

Stan Lake (23:51)
right?

Mara DeMauro (23:51)
Yes!

Stan Lake (23:53)
doom scrolling it'll get you like i yeah i read a ton of books but lately because i've been a little stressed out i'll just sit on my front porch and i'll realize like the book is sitting next to me and i'm just scrolling like dumb shit

Renee (24:06)
Isn't that so

bizarre? It's like such its own form of numbing out where you're like, you look up and it's like 30 minutes later and you're like, ⁓ shit.

Stan Lake (24:12)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (24:17)
It's like the

ultimate time suck and it's so it's so quick to just disassociate. It's like, yeah, the addiction is real and

Stan Lake (24:27)
Yeah, the dopamine

hit from that, yeah.

Renee (24:30)
Well, and that's like a perfect segue to my next question about like your emphasis on nature and getting out in nature and how that's, ⁓ you know, affected maybe how you wrote, ⁓ you know, your The Toad in a Glass Jar and how did that maybe affect how you wrote it or how do you incorporate getting out in nature? Because I know that's something that you're pretty enthusiastic about.

Stan Lake (24:55)
Right, yeah, most of my life has been this weird dude out in the woods. mean, for a number of years, I chased this dream of having a television show, being a Crocodile Hunter style host. I came real close and never officially landed the deal, so to speak, but we made new.

Mara DeMauro (25:13)
Wait, hold on,

hold on, hold on. Why is it right there? You were gonna be a host for a Crocodile Hunter show?

Stan Lake (25:21)
But it just, I, there's a number of years where like I produced my own show called Catching Creation. ⁓ and then out of that, I would have these production companies reach out to me and be like, would you like to have a show on Animal Planet? I'm like, ⁓ yeah, like that's only what I've wanted my entire life. ⁓ and they just never, they never came to fruition. I think I signed with three or four different companies that were pitching me across town. And I think the prevailing sentiment from like,

Mara DeMauro (25:37)
And maybe.

Renee (25:42)
Mmm.

Stan Lake (25:48)
Nat Geowild, Animal Planet, and all these people that I heard after the fact was like, but why is he in the woods? Like, he's not an expert. He's like on paper, right? Like, what is this dude doing? And I'm like, I I felt like Brian Fellows from Saturday Night Live. I'm like, he's an enthusiastic young man with the love for God's creation. but yeah, but you know.

Renee (25:59)
RUDE!

That's enough.

Mara DeMauro (26:11)
Interesting.

Stan Lake (26:12)
It is what it is, but like I still do those things. I still post videos occasionally and do that. yeah, you're right. Nature for me has been it's been a three line as well. I grew up, you know, raised by a single mom and we would, you know, my brother and sister and I, you we would get dropped off there like my grandmothers. We would just explore the woods and we would catch toads and put them in literal glass jars and we would catch box turtles and lizards and whatever else. And just that was kind of part of, I mean,

Growing up in the Southeast too, it's like part of my cultural upbringing. know, most Southern storytellers are going to tell you stories about snakes they found or, you know, all this other kind of natural history stuff, whatever, or least in my family. ⁓ And so I just grew to love those things. ⁓ so it's always been a deep part of who I am. I studied environmental biology in college for three years until I got deployed to Iraq, came back, did a semester more.

I was at the time working in a research lab studying bats. So like I was pretty heavily invested in that career path and then had a shift, went to Bible college, have a degree in practical ministry. For a number of years, I combined biology and natural history and traveled the Southeast and brought snakes and frogs to churches and talked to kids about Jesus. Like, so I've just had these like weird, weird lives, but I've always been able to like carry things with me, right? Like,

Mara DeMauro (27:20)
You

Renee (27:34)
What a pivot.

Stan Lake (27:40)
So with the writing, nature's always gonna find its way in there. There's gonna be faith at some level, I'm sure, in some of them, whether it be jaded or otherwise. So again, it's always weird for me to disentangle myself from all these layers of past lives, but they all find their way into the makeup of who I am, and then you see it on the page in most cases, too. I don't know if I answered the question, because I kind of blacked out.

Renee (28:06)
Yeah, totally. Well,

Mara DeMauro (28:07)
Yeah.

Renee (28:08)
how did you catch your lizards?

Stan Lake (28:11)
I mean, you know I'm...

Mara DeMauro (28:11)
How'd you do that?

Renee (28:13)
Because I want to say

because I want to tell him how I used to do it when I was growing up. So I want to know from his perspective, how I used to catch his.

Stan Lake (28:21)
I mean, we would just sneak up and just grab them, mean, with everything. I, yeah, I mean, I used to be pretty fast. Yeah, I'm curious, where's the method?

Renee (28:23)
Just grab them. Just yank. Okay.

Mara DeMauro (28:29)
Why, Nay, what kind of fucked up shit would you do? ⁓

Renee (28:35)
So my uncle, so we would go visit my family out in California and my grandparents had this like amazing garden, like in the backyard where they had like raised flower beds and stuff like that. And like, you know, all the gravel and all that shit where we thought it was like lava and all that fun stuff. And my uncle would take a long like stick and put twine, like copper twine at the end and do like a little like noose thing at the end. And so we would hold it out in front of the lizards and they would just run.

straight into them so then we could like pick them up and then we would like release them and stuff like that.

Stan Lake (29:09)
People, scientists do that. We did that in Florida, me and a buddy. ⁓ We went down there to look for invasive wildlife. And one of the scientists that I interviewed, first documentary I ever tried to film, complete failure. ⁓ Ironically, like I lost all the tapes because I gave them to an editor and just got them all back 18 years later, ⁓ like last year. But it's still garbage, but it's cool to have it.

Mara DeMauro (29:32)
Wow. Wow.

Stan Lake (29:37)
But one of the scientists we interviewed was like, oh yeah, if you go to this middle school and you park on the corner and get a kid's fishing rod, you reach out the window and you can catch these lizards called a gammas, which they're, I think they're an African lizard that's wild in Florida. And we tried it, you know, but for me, just, like, I couldn't do it. had to run stuff down. Like I have a lizard in my basement that we call it in Florida. That is literally the fastest lizard. It's a Mexican spiny teleguana, like supposedly the fastest one on land.

Renee (29:50)
What?

Stan Lake (30:06)
your boy chased him down. I don't know how, cause this was like five years ago, but it was a baby and I tired it out on a seawall and brought her home. Turns out they're the worst pets you could ever get. So like, don't do it, but she's cool. She's mine.

Renee (30:10)
my God.

Whoa, that's awesome. Very cool.

Mara DeMauro (30:26)
my gosh. I grew up with. A lot of brothers and ⁓ an uncle who is who thinks he's the crocodile hunter himself. Like just just wild, you know, so growing up, they'd always be like, you want to go snake hunting? You want to go, you know, like and I was just there for the ride, but a lot of.

memories of all the critters and creatures. ⁓ Which is kind of interesting because I feel like when I was young, I was very immersed in that. And then there was a big chunk of time in my life where I was very disconnected from. Like anything that's not humans, you know, like, you know, like it was just like a lot of people interaction, not a lot of nature or like other creatures. And I'm.

the past few years I've come back to this place of just being in complete awe of everything, you know, like, and I think a big part of that has been ⁓ the journey of unpacking the layers of, you know, the fog that comes with numbing out in certain ways and kind of just expanding and opening up more and

seeing, you know, like my little dog. I'm just like, dude, he's barking right now. He's driving me freaking nuts. Bad timing. But like looking at him, I'm like, you're like a little fucking soul. Like you're just like this little creature and you have your whole world and it's just, it's so cool. I'm gonna mute myself.

Renee (32:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, no worries.

Stan Lake (32:11)
You

Renee (32:11)
Yeah, mean, yeah, go ahead, see ya.

Stan Lake (32:12)
It is.

No, I was gonna say, I find too, in seasons where I'm stressed out, the one place I should be is in nature, hiking or whatever. And for whatever reason, it's like the hardest thing for me to go do. I mean, I had to like force myself this week, actually, the first time in a long time, I went to a, it's called a vernal pool. It's like a temporary wetland that develops this time of year and salamanders breed in them. And a buddy of mine and I went.

And we'd canceled like three other times because both of us would get off work and be like, I don't want to do this today. Like I just want to take a nap or I just want to not think about anything. But we're like, all right, we got to do it. And that, it was better for it. You know, it's like that wonder, the all that she was talking about. Like I need that. And I think we need that as humans, that connectedness to nature. And again, for me as a person of faith, like I in nature, I feel like it's easy to me to point back to the divine and be like, yeah, we're

Renee (32:41)
I just don't.

Yeah.

Stan Lake (33:07)
insignificant but like not in a bad way or you know not in a whatever but just like wow like all this stuff is amazing and the further I get away from that sometimes it seems like that's where I start cycling or spiraling or whatever even more so I always have to remind myself like hey dumb dumb get in the woods you know

Renee (33:25)
Yes.

Yeah. Do you feel like the connection like when you do get out in nature, like do you feel more present and just different when you come back? Like do you get kind of like a surge or any kind of like energetic ⁓ feelings after going into nature?

Stan Lake (33:45)
Definitely. I think too like it like you were saying it clear clears the fog right like it and and I think that's social media I think that's a big deal or just being so connected on our phones like if you're not doing that you're Disconnected like physically and you're able to be present It's so much better. I I remember a few years ago. I was filming at a Martian town and I just remember like focusing on these gnats I think there's a poem in the

Renee (33:50)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (34:14)
book even about it. I've worked on that thing for so long, I can't remember what's in it and what we threw away, but I'm pretty sure there's one in there about gnats, right? But I just remember being in awe and watching these little tiny bugs swarm over the marsh and being like, I'm about to cry. It's cool. This is a whole other world that I don't know anything about, but it's beautiful. It's like they're dancing.

I wouldn't have seen that watching it on TV or seeing it any other way, but like being present in that moment from a pest, right? Like, but again, it was like being available to the wonder and the all that surrounds all of us. Like it's, it's there. We just forget it and we don't access it.

Renee (34:57)
Yeah, beautifully said, for sure. ⁓ I wanna, Mara's there, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Mara.

Mara DeMauro (34:58)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. I was

just going to say, do you have your book near? Would you want to read one of your poems?

Renee (35:09)
Yeah, hell yeah.

Stan Lake (35:10)
⁓

I have, have to look and see, ⁓ yeah, I can flip through and find something. I'm sure. ⁓ but it's a weird book. cause I've, so the way I, the way I've broken it, broken it up is like, there's, ⁓ it's broken into four phases, right? So I broke it into almost like life cycles of a toad. so lot of it's like early childhood and then goes into war. ⁓ here's one that it's appropriate.

kind of, it's the first one I flipped to, but it's called Lizards, but it's not about lizards. So, I'll read this one real quick, because it's kind of a fun one. Our leaders are probably lizards, slimy reptilians that slither, true intentions like chameleons, cold-blooded Machiavellian. Maybe they're more like skinks, I bet they're like skinks, what do you think? Hiding in holes right under feet, awaiting an ambush for something to eat.

Perhaps they're more like monitors, truly undeserving of that moniker. Fork tongues with a throaty hiss, a mouthful of lies so venomous. No, they're just poor misguided men, preying on the weak, abiding in sin. I wish they were more like lizards. At least then we could kill the critters. That's a, you know, it's kind of a weird one, but like, I like it. ⁓

Renee (36:31)
Wow.

How appropriate

though, that's so great. my gosh.

Mara DeMauro (36:37)
Yeah

Stan Lake (36:39)
And then here's a,

I'll read one more. This one's about childhood and kind of about what we were talking about. It's called Growing Up Wild. ⁓ I grew up wild, feral and free, long before the tendrils of technology. My hours spent deep within wooded glens, my brother, my sister, my only friends, frogs, snakes and box turtles we'd race, knee deep in creeks and other such muddy places. I miss the days we spent.

before we had reflective faces.

Mara DeMauro (37:10)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Renee (37:12)
So good. Yeah, fucking mic drop, dude. ⁓ my God. It's so special.

Stan Lake (37:14)
Right, right, the snaps. But it's

Mara DeMauro (37:14)
Snap, snap.

Stan Lake (37:20)
a fun book again. And then there's like other poems in there about like suicide and what, you know, the trappings of coming home from war and living with dissonance. And ⁓ so I have to curate like what I read where, you It's been the ongoing joke where I'm like, ⁓ you know, like talking to my dad or whoever about the book. I'm like, yeah, I was like.

Renee (37:26)
the whole spectrum.

Mara DeMauro (37:31)
Yeah.

Sure.

Stan Lake (37:43)
I'm gonna read you guys a poem about a June bug, then one about blowing my brains out. Like, I just... This is the spectrum of what you will get, and you're gonna hate it or love it or somewhere in the middle and it'll make you feel... something?

Renee (37:47)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (37:48)
Right. Right.

Renee (38:00)
Well, that's the thing. It just sounds so authentic to you. That is your representation of your perspective on how your life has been and what you've lived through. And that authenticity is something that can't be mimicked, but can be admired. So thank you for sharing that. I feel like we had an exclusive. So that's awesome.

Stan Lake (38:25)
Yeah, for sure.

Mara DeMauro (38:25)
Hahahaha

Stan Lake (38:26)
It's funny too, because we were talking about memoir earlier. I didn't write this in that lens, but after the fact, the editor wrote his introduction to the book and he said it was a poetic memoir. And I didn't think of it as that when I was writing it, but how could it not be? When I looked back at it, and even the way that I structured it, was like, ⁓ this is my entire life more or less spread out through triumph and tragedy. I didn't think about, again,

who would want to read my memoir, but like effectively here, here is a version of it, right? Like here is a real raw nerve and as honest as I can be to a fault. And again, it's weird.

Mara DeMauro (39:09)
Yeah, love it. Love it. yeah, it makes me think that like, is there any, is there anything we can like say, or write that doesn't have the, like the perspective of what we have gone through, like our own personal life experience, you know, like that's going to project through in some way, you know, so it's interesting to think that like, yeah, I'm not, this isn't an MMR, you know, but then you look back on it you're like,

Renee (39:09)
We like weird.

Mm.

Stan Lake (39:32)
Right.

Mara DeMauro (39:39)
Yes, this is very much a reflection of all of my life experiences and how I've perceived them.

Renee (39:41)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (39:44)
It's even funny,

I wrote children's books ⁓ first, that's the first thing I ever wrote and published. ⁓ And the first one I wrote was ⁓ called The Not-So-Ordinary Journey of Todd the Toad about an albino toad, which is funny. But ⁓ when I got done with it, it turned into people like, this is about bullying. I'm like, yes, it is, sure. And then my mom's like, that's about you, isn't it? I'm like, ⁓ actually, yeah, I guess I am.

Mara DeMauro (40:06)
haha

You

Stan Lake (40:13)
in this book, somebody's like, so you're the toad? Because I like took the picture like holding it with my knuckle tattoos. I'm like, yeah, I guess I am forever the toad. So that's me. I also have a basement full of them as well. But yeah.

Mara DeMauro (40:27)
Oh my

Renee (40:28)
my god.

Mara DeMauro (40:28)
gosh.

Renee (40:29)
Forever town. Sick.

Mara DeMauro (40:29)
Forever Toad. Your new handle.

Stan Lake (40:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (40:34)
guys

Renee (40:34)
Well, we could,

I could literally sit here and talk to you like all day. This has been such a like pleasure and such a lovely conversation. I really just appreciate you taking your time to share your story with us. And Mara, do you have any other questions before we wrap up? I mean, I have tons in my head, but like.

Mara DeMauro (40:55)
I

I know. Well, I was just wondering, like, is there anything else you want to share with listeners, ⁓ you know, whether it's your audience, our audience, ⁓ just kind of about, like, embracing our authentic selves and showing up, you know, like who we are to not be so afraid.

Stan Lake (41:18)
Right, yeah, it's funny, a buddy of mine, he teaches a creative writing class for vets and he keeps quoting another friend of ours that's a novelist named David Joy and he says, in order to be a good writer, and I think this applies to life too, he says you've got to be fearless and vulnerable and I think that's what we all need to be, right? You need to be fearless and vulnerable and I think that's where your strength is. And so again, Worth Parker is the one that quotes it from David Joy.

So it's attributing to them. But I think that that's like a pretty good mantra, right? Like there's, ⁓ like being fearless and vulnerable. It helps you be real. And I think in a world where like we're putting on our best days for social media, where we're putting on filters and everything else, like, I think seeing kind of warts and all sometimes is more of a refreshing thing than seeing someone well put together. And I'm hoping that that's what people get from the collective kind of things that I put out, whether it be.

You know, the videos that we put out occasionally, they're just, they're just me being passionate about whatever it is and it's not perfect. ⁓ cause I don't know why I'm in the woods, right? Like I can't pinpoint it. ⁓ and the same thing with the writing stuff, the poetry is, you know, I'm not classically trained in anything. I'm teaching myself writing. Like I have no business teaching writing, but here I am. ⁓ you know, I also teach creative writing for veterans, ⁓ doing nonprofit, but again, it's just about.

being authentic to who you are and saying yes to opportunities. I don't know, I think that's the best thing I could say is just be available and be open to what's around the next corner.

Mara DeMauro (42:58)
Yeah, yeah. I definitely see like the fearless aspect behind that of like going for opportunities, like, you know, being fearless and putting yourself out there. ⁓ How, I guess my very last question, because I think this can be so nuanced. What does it mean to be vulnerable?

Renee (42:59)
Yeah.

Stan Lake (43:20)
⁓ I think it's also funny like the fearless thing like I'm scared of shit like all the time like Like like my anxiety level is usually like a nine out of a ten. So You know being vulnerable. I think it's just it's being honest To that and not and not shying away from it, right? Like I could put on this whole macho bravado bullshit and be like no, I'm good I'm tough and whatever I've done this I've done that like dude. I'm a broken dude trying to figure it out

And like, I think as long as I'm honest to who I am and what I am, I'm okay with it. Like, you're not gonna say anything to me that I've not said to myself, you know? So, I think as long as I'm not putting on a front, ⁓ I can't be hurt by anything. And I have to remind myself of that too, when I'm like being insecure about, you know, like this book, like how it's going to be received or whatever, right? Like, it doesn't matter. I've done it. Like, it's done.

Renee (43:59)
Ha

Mara DeMauro (44:00)
Mmm.

Stan Lake (44:18)
Moving on to the next thing and on to the next. And I think it's part of the journey for all of us. It's just like all having these mile marker moments, celebrating a win, but don't live in that. Keep moving.

Mara DeMauro (44:34)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Honesty, the transparency. Yeah. So many, so many different like facets of vulnerability. It's like, that's a big concept and ⁓ so many. Yeah. It's like just letting, letting ourselves be human and be seen, you know, as that. So yeah. Thank you so much for chatting. It's been really cool to just.

Renee (44:34)
Yeah, love that.

Hmm.

Mara DeMauro (45:02)
gets to know little parts of your story. And I'm sure there's so many more. ⁓ So yeah, hopefully we can get to continue to follow along on your journey and read your books and learn more ⁓ and keep going.

Stan Lake (45:20)
Thank you guys so much for inviting me on here. I do appreciate the opportunity and letting me speak and again, be a weirdo. So thank you.

Renee (45:28)
Yes, fuck yeah, dude. Love it. Well, we will be sure to link everything where you can find the book, where you can find Stan, all the socials, all those good things. Again, Stan, honored. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Until next time, guys, bye.

Mara DeMauro (45:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.