Moderation vs. Alcohol Free, Who Wins?

We all win! In this episode of Nosedive, we explain the complexities of moderation versus sobriety, exploring the gray area of drinking, and how everyone really wins here when you begin assessing overall health, wellness, and growth. Inclusivity is a key ingredient in conversations about alcohol. We talk about the weight of "labels" and sometimes the backlash that comes from even discussing alcohol in the first place. The need for community and self-reflection are at an all time high and we want to empower listeners to stand in their courage and be the support to help navigate triggers and personal growth.

Which is why we want to invite you to SIP HAPPENS! Our free workshop hosted by LaunchBreak (THE networking platform for women athletes), on July 22nd, at 7pm ET. We are talking all things sober curiosity and beyond, and we need you there to laugh with us, learn with us, and maybe question if that third margarita was ever really worth it. Grab your seat here. 

With Dry July right around the corner, there is no better time to dive in! We are giving you $40.00 off our 5-month self led course, The Curiosity Compass  with code: "DRYJULY" at checkout. Think of it as your ticket to clarity, confidence, and way fewer hangovers. 

Transcript

Renee (00:01)
Hello, hello, welcome back to Nosedive. I've got Mara with me here today. What's up, Mara?

Mara DeMauro (00:01)
you

What's up? Good seeing you. ⁓

Renee (00:10)
I just love, can I just mention for those of who can't see us, we're just like on our hat games recently and I've just been really, really liking that. So I just had to mention that. Also want to mention just a shout out to all of the people who've been supporting the podcast, who've been downloading, subscribing to it, listening to it. I just like, we can't thank you enough from the bottom of our hearts. Honestly, this is just something that we really love and want to bring.

Mara DeMauro (00:16)
Wee hee hee hee.

Renee (00:38)
⁓ topics to you guys that we like, but also that you guys want to hear too. So we just thank you so much for the support and please, please email us and let us know some different topics. If you have anything on your mind, we'd love to dissect it and dive into it. ⁓ yeah, today we are talking about, I feel like it's still a pretty hot topic, I think in this space, ⁓ moderation.

versus going completely alcohol free or being 100 % sober. And this topic, I think is so hot because of the area that we kind of find ourselves in, or I found myself in at least, is that kind of gray area. And what that means if you do decide to become 100 % alcohol free, is moderation even, I don't know, possible for people? You know, what does that look like? I think

That's why the gray area and why it can be so confusing sometimes for people to even want to get started in looking at their relationship with behaviors that no longer serve them anymore. Maybe not even in the alcohol space, but that is what we're kind of talking about.

Mara DeMauro (01:50)
You know, that's kind of the topic here.

Renee (01:52)
That's kind of the topic here. That's kind of the whole point. yeah, Mara, what are some of these key points? I know we kind of like talked about some things before hopping on here that you wanted to kind of start with.

Mara DeMauro (02:05)
Yeah, I find, I think this space of just the gray area, gray area drinking, gray area, anything is such a true reflection of what life really is. We're always in the gray, but we try so hard, you know, because it's normal. We want to feel certain about things. We want safety. We want to know. And so it just kind of makes me laugh.

It's a really great practice that not just applies to whether you're drinking or not, but how you navigate life. You know, how are you able to hold so much space? Because I have goosebumps. Seriously, just thinking about it, like how expansive and how overwhelming life can just be because of so many unknowns, both exciting and maybe scary, but to be able to hold the space for

everything and not really know, that's fucking hard. And so this concept of sober curiosity allows you to play with that dynamic. And, you know, we were kind of talking about like identities and labels and like why some people may like really like being all or nothing and how that might be really challenging for other people.

Renee (03:08)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (03:32)
So we're hoping that this episode kind of gives you some insight into where you might fall, you know, which category you might fall into and hopefully the support to, you know, help you try it out. You know, what's the worst case scenario? so yeah, I know you were, you were talking about how the all or nothing approach wasn't really appealing to you. was, that was more like off putting.

But the sober curiosity route, you know, there was more inclusivity in it. So yeah, like, can you share a little bit about why that really stood out for you?

Renee (04:08)
Yeah, for sure. And two, before I go into that, I do want to say that we don't necessarily think that one way is better than the other by any means. We definitely have ⁓ a different kind of empathy for people who are really going through some things with addiction and

Mara DeMauro (04:20)
100%.

Renee (04:31)
in the sobriety realm and we understand that. And I think the overarching sort of umbrella here is that we want to include everyone in this conversation and that nobody is left out. But we do empathize for those people who really cannot moderate and maybe don't necessarily believe in moderation at all. So we understand that and we get that. But yeah, for me personally, like when I started this journey,

Thinking about giving something up that was such a part of my everyday life and now looking back, a coping mechanism for how I dealt with my everyday life emotions was so daunting to me, it stopped me in my tracks from even trying. So that all or nothing mentality for me just did not sit well.

And it was, it wasn't until I understood when we started working together that you're like, no, you can actually have this curiosity and this gray area about whether or not this fits into your life anymore. And it's going to take, take a couple of tries and it's going to take that curiosity to be able to understand what is going to work for you. I think it's important to have some kind of baseline.

without having any kind of substance at all to even know what your body does, how it reacts to it, how you feel. But I think it was just such a softer launch for me internally to be like, okay, I can take that step by step instead of being like, oh my God, I'm setting myself up for in my mind failure. Because before then I couldn't go more than

Mara DeMauro (06:05)
and

and

Renee (06:26)
two or three days without having anything to drink. So how am I gonna sit here and be like, yes, I am for the rest of my life, I am not gonna have any more alcohol and then start that shame spiral. If I did, what would that look like? Like would I just say fuck it and not even try anymore or, know, and I can sit here and tell you now two years later that I guess I consider myself a flex or sober-ish person.

Mara DeMauro (06:41)
Right.

Renee (06:56)
but going from 15 to 20 drinks a week to maybe having one every couple months, that to me is everything. Like that is progression and I feel really, really comfortable with that. And I think it's been a natural progression for me to almost remove it entirely, but I just don't classify myself as being a sober person.

Mara DeMauro (07:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's, really, really cool to, like, see your bravery to the willingness to experiment because that's what this really comes down to. You know, like, can you give yourself the permission to maybe fuck up a little bit, maybe get tossed around, be confused, you know, feel, you know, entirely.

Renee (07:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, entirely and wholly for the first

time probably. It's so overwhelming. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (07:51)
Right. Be a little uncomfortable. Also

have a little bit of fun, you know, and that's why it's so, you know, if you're, if this is something that's really on your mind, having support, no matter what it is, who it is, how it is, know, besides the booze, you know, it's so important having someone there to really, yeah, be your supporter group of people or whatever that looks like. And I do, I want to like backtrack a little bit. Cause like, you're just saying so much. I'm like, Ooh, yeah.

Ooh yeah, ooh yeah.

Renee (08:21)
Yeah

Mara DeMauro (08:26)
Yes. Like, I just wanted to like second what you said about there. We are not saying this one way is the way ⁓ we've said this multiple times throughout our episodes. Like, I know people who in order for their lives to be how they want it to be or even to live, it is an all or nothing thing.

and they're, you know, this whole approach welcomes in.

Everyone because I've had so many people be like, my gosh, Mara, that's so cool. What you do or blah, blah, blah. You know, I have someone who would love your content or who would love your podcast. And I get it. Cause we're, starting to talk about this stuff in a way that it is welcoming to everyone, but this is really talking about health and wellness. You know, alcohol just happens to be the thing.

Renee (09:06)
everyone.

Mara DeMauro (09:33)
the topic, you know, just how, you know, everyone is in on the conversation about how you should have more movement in your life or eat a balanced diet or all those things. This is also just one of those conversation pieces. And so, and that's why the curiosity piece is and the sober-ish piece and the gray area, that's what that is meant for. But that is, I recognize that is hard, I think, for

Renee (09:35)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (10:02)
people to really grasp, you know, and because it's in our brain, just want to like, like place into categories. And so they're like, great area. What's that? You know, sober curious. What's that? You know, so if you're just like, yo, I'm sick and tired of being hung over or gosh, I don't really find this fun anymore. Well, you're in the perfect spot. Cause we're talking about all this stuff, you know? ⁓

Renee (10:05)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Well, there's

so many, there's just so many benefits. Like, I think hands down, the one thing that maybe we can all agree on at this point is that alcohol is not good for your body. no matter how you look at it, and it's not about demonizing alcohol at all. think it's more about, it's so much bigger than that. It's the decisions, it's the behavior, it's the choices for yourself, it's your goals. Like, it's so, so much bigger than

the actual thing itself. And it could be, again, as what we said before, like it could be anything, ⁓ scrolling too much or not getting good sleep, all of that stuff. It's like all in that same realm. But I think in terms of sober curiosity and moderation versus giving all or nothing, it's like this is a segue into how you can change your behaviors around something that I think we just know is just like not good for you. ⁓

to just elevate and build a community around. And exactly like what you're saying, goes back to like, thank God that I hired you as a coach. Like my life would be entirely different if I did not allow myself to be vulnerable enough to be like, you know what? I want to make a change and this is gonna be very uncomfortable. It's gonna kind of dig up some shit that I probably have been suppressing for a really long time, but.

Mara DeMauro (11:34)
Hmm.

Renee (11:54)
Why not? Like, here we go, you know? Yeah. Yeah, full sun.

Mara DeMauro (11:56)
Right. Full send.

Yeah. And I think too, like from my own personal experience, I also, like, I guess I wouldn't say like I'm sober because I've had like a sip of my friend's drink or something like that, you know, but I haven't had even a drink or a glass of wine, you know, in over two years. ⁓ but it's interesting, like,

why I won't claim that title. And I think, I guess I don't really like titles in general or labels. Like, I like flexibility because to me, a title, whether it's about my alcohol usage, whether it's about relationships, whether it's about, I don't care. The title is just a marker.

Renee (12:32)
Hmph.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (12:53)
You know, to signify something, but it's not, what matters to me is the willingness to have the conversation around the thing that's on the signpost. You know, like, it's just, it's a word, you know, and words have so many, so much meaning. And I think it's amazing. Don't get me started on my love for language and linguistics, whatever, but.

Renee (13:16)
Hahaha.

Mara DeMauro (13:21)
Yeah, it's like, it's the, openness and the willingness to have the conversation around the things that matter.

Renee (13:27)
Well, it's such an interesting thing that you say about like the linguistics thing, because I can't remember what, I think she's like a scientist or something. I'm probably going to butcher it. But she said that we are the meaning makers. whatever I think sober curiosity is, I am putting meaning behind that. And that can mean something different to somebody else, which is such a beautiful thing because it encompasses

a different level of connecting with each other. And so when we have that openness and remove some of that rigidity behind the labels, ⁓ we're able to just like get to different expansions, different levels ⁓ of not only knowing ourselves, but knowing other people and being able to grow through that. Because who you are right now in this moment is not gonna necessarily be the same thing.

in a year from now. so your labels can change unless you just want to stick to your conviction and be like, no, I am this person and you're comfortable with that. Okay. Fucking cool. That's, that's cool too.

Mara DeMauro (14:38)
Right. Exactly.

It's just like, it's, it's like, kind of like owning what feels good for you in this moment. You know, what, what truly, what truly feels good and what's, what's your truth at this time? And gosh, that's changes that can change every day and that's okay.

Renee (14:59)
Why do you think there's so much pushback when people decide to do something different? So like, say for example, like there have been so many instances recently, especially with like celebrities and shit like that, who have identified as being sober and now are kind of being like, oh, I think I'm gonna go on the moderation track just to kind of like see. And for a lot of people, I feel like it's like a grieving.

period for them because they looked up to this person for this in particular like label of like, oh, you're the reason why I got sober or whatever it is and then it makes you question and blah, blah, blah. So why do you think maybe that there's such sometimes backlash from people when or like why people are so mad when you're like, you know, I think I actually want to change or I think I want to do something else. And that actually goes for getting sober or becoming soberish or a moderate drinker.

Mara DeMauro (15:30)
Mmm

Renee (15:55)
Like, why do you want to do that? Like, why is there so much backlash?

Mara DeMauro (15:59)
Yeah. mean, I think because it makes us question ourselves what we want and it's, you know, it's that constant. mean, it's that classic like mirror situation. Like, they're doing that. Wait. So now it's making me question my own behavior. Do I still want to be sober or do I actually want to, or can I be sober or

Renee (16:08)
Mm.

Can I?

Mara DeMauro (16:24)
Or should I be on the sober curious train or should I do this at all? ⁓ So, you know, I think everything like everything's like a ping and we're like these little antennas and it's like someone like does something and it's like, and it like rattles up and we're like, hold up. Like you're, you're confusing what I have made truth in my mind. And it's evoking something.

Renee (16:41)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (16:52)
within me and maybe I feel it in my body and it's upsetting me. This is like kind of how we, you know, this is like your classic trigger, quote unquote trigger terminology. And it rattles us. And I feel like my biggest takeaway from feeling so many triggers, ⁓ because we all do, we're human is like, just remembering that it is an opportunity for you to reassess how you want to show up.

Renee (16:59)
Mm.

Mara DeMauro (17:22)
You know, and like when people are like, I got sober for you or I got, you know, I decided we, we make changes. If we make a sustainable change, it's because we did it because we truly want to do it for ourselves. People can make temporary changes or even try something out. And I think that's okay. I think that's great. If someone inspires you to try something on like, I'm going to try on this sober hat for five days. Fucking awesome rocket. Cool. Experiment with it. But if it, when it comes down to like sustainable long-term.

Renee (17:26)
Mmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (17:52)
self-love changes, that's, that is a calling so deep within you that you're like, okay, I'm ready to meet myself here. And I know that everyone deserves that. You know, we just have to help other people, remind other people that they are deserving of that too. And you know, not to bend over totally backwards when someone keeps hitting their head on the door, you know, and they're not.

You know, you can put your hand out, hey, I'm here, you know, but that's, I don't know. I don't know why I'm still stuck on this little ping thing. Just like, they're going out and we're picking up on the ping. So figure out what you want to do with your ping.

Renee (18:27)
Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think,

right, yeah. Well, and a lot of the times, or at least in the beginning too for me, it's like, I would get somewhat defensive too. Like I was not coming from a place of having empathy for other people when in reality they have no idea what's going on in my head or in my life or whatever. And there's this like initial...

defense mechanism of wanting to put walls up, of having to either explain yourself or fluidity does not come natural. I don't know if it doesn't come natural to the human race or not, but for me, it didn't. Fluidity and being ⁓ fluid or flexible in decision-making was not something that came naturally for me.

Mara DeMauro (19:15)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Renee (19:28)
I think that's another part of this is that there is a lot of sort of breaking down different patterns just from either your childhood or growing up or just how you've been conducting your life. And as you said, you have been living in your mind with this one set, like this is how it is. And then when someone comes in and kind of shakes that up, there's this whole process of like, whoa, you're completely

negating everything in my whole world that I know. What? So to be able to meet that with a little more softness, a little more empathy and a little more love, it's definitely hard for me to do. But I think when you can get there and why we have these conversations about it is for that purpose in itself, is to cultivate

Mara DeMauro (20:03)
Right? Right.

Renee (20:25)
this sense of inclusivity and just being open to the conversation for everybody, even if you are pissed off, even if you are mad, like, let's freaking talk about it. Like, why? Because the second that you say something like that, I'm sure as hell that there's somebody else either in that room or listening that feels the exact same way that you do.

Mara DeMauro (20:45)
Mm. Yeah. And yeah, it reminds me too of like, you know.

to just try to not.

It's hard. I mean, we're always passing judgment, you know, but to try to be softer, maybe, in our judgments. But you know when someone gets super excited about their, you know, they feel like they discovered something profound or they did experience something profound and they're on this new journey and they're like, oh I'm alcohol free. Like, there's been times in my life, I guess I should say, like where I've interacted with someone who

was super hype and vocal about their lifestyle choices. And it pinged me in a way that made me be like, mm, why do you think the way you're living your life is the best way? like, do you know what I mean? I would get internally annoyed. ⁓ But I guess kind of where I am now, because I can see myself like.

Renee (21:42)
Mmm. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (21:54)
how maybe I have come off like that to certain people about my own journey and now being like, okay, like if someone is super hype about their new discovery and how it's helping their life and they're trying to, you know, spread the word, it's like, them, like Mel Robbins says, like literally let them, like it's, that's great. You know, when people are passionate about something it's because it has lit something up within them. And

Renee (21:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, like who fucking cares? Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (22:24)
I don't think that's something I should try to dim or take away. so, ⁓ that doesn't make, that doesn't mean that I have to do what they're doing or, know, whatever, but I can witness their excitement and that alone makes me like, cool, you know, like, let me get excited too, over here about this thing. And just to kind of be open and less judgmental about, you know, how you, how you're doing and how other people are doing.

Renee (22:42)
Yeah.

Dude, I used to do fucking deep eye rolls for people who were like, I'm not drinking. I'm like, oh, you're not? You know what I mean? Like, oh, well, good for you. You know? Yeah, like, cool. You know, it's like, trust me. Like, I totally understand that too. Like, the deep eye roll. Like, well, good for you, sis. Like, nobody fucking cares. But.

Mara DeMauro (23:08)
I am.

Right.

Renee (23:23)
Now it's different. I'm on that other side where I'm like, you don't? Cool. Tell me about it. So yeah, think just as you said, approaching the scenario in a completely different sort of mindset ⁓ is just beneficial to everybody. And it's like, don't you want to be the person who's kind of putting that arm around somebody instead of extending the arm? ⁓ Like putting your hand up and like, I don't want any of that. ⁓

Mara DeMauro (23:30)
Right.

Mm.

Right. Right.

Renee (23:53)
Yeah, I think I'd much rather be the other way.

Mara DeMauro (23:56)
Wow. I just had

like a visual like this versus like that and how subtle that movement is, like just turning your hand over, reaching out versus that. ⁓

Renee (23:59)
Oi the E, yeah.

two totally different vibes. Yeah, yeah. Why, so like, why do you think that there's such a controversy between, you know, moderating versus maybe going 100 % alcohol free?

Mara DeMauro (24:11)
Yeah.

Well, I'll share this story. Maybe I've shared it before. ⁓ but I think, I mean, I, I would assume that because there are people who have been in, in and out of recovery where this isn't a place where it's like, we're just going to test it out. Be curious about it. It's like, literally their life is on the line and there is no maybe it's.

Yes or no. And that is, that's, that's very intense, you know, to, to see family members or loved ones or be the person going through that. So I don't know from personal experience because I've never been in that particular, like a person who has to be all or nothing, like my life on the line and stuff like that. ⁓ but, ⁓

Renee (24:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (25:24)
I don't, you know, maybe it's a lack of misunderstanding of both sides. You know, like, hey, it's not like, it's nothing to be shameful of, but it's also not like, hey, I carry this trophy. Like, you can't experiment, you know, with being alcohol-free because you're not a quote unquote alcoholic.

You know, like this, it's not, it's just not about that. And I'm not saying everyone feels that way. Like don't come at me with this shit. Okay. Because I can already like, you know, I'm yeah, I'm just like guessing, you know, but I've, mean, I've had someone in the community in Charleston who turned away a workshop offering, ⁓ because they were like, I can't vibe with the sober curious stuff because this,

Renee (25:46)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I know you like feel it.

Mara DeMauro (26:16)
I know too many people who have died because it was the mess, you know, they didn't get all or nothing or they didn't do all or nothing. And I'm like, yes. And like understand that. And what about all the other people that this, this approach can benefit and they don't fall into that category. So I think it's just like a shift.

Renee (26:25)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (26:43)
of like, it's so much, this is a broader health topic that applies to everyone. It's not just someone who is struggling with addiction.

Renee (26:54)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I had something similar actually when I was like trying to do a workshop locally in Savannah and they just didn't even want to touch the subject ⁓ because you're talking about alcohol. And when you talk about alcohol, people again want to stiff arm. They want to be like, ⁓ no, I don't even want to

Mara DeMauro (26:56)
And now...

Renee (27:23)
touch that subject, can be too triggering for people, it can be too deep for people. ⁓ But I think it has an opposite effect when you do put up that hand and say, no, I don't want to talk about this. It just perpetuates that same sort of shame around drinking or wanting to even ask the question about what I can do differently to better my life when it comes to alcohol.

And I still think there is that. Like I still think that there is this very negative connotation between wanting to talk about becoming a gray area drinker. You are a gray area drinker. Anything that has to do with alcohol, it's like, you have a problem. You know, it's still like that. And I'm happy that we do have people in this space who are

Mara DeMauro (28:13)
Mm-hmm

Renee (28:22)
taking on moderation and who are trying to be more mindful and just like better their lives in general. But I still feel like it's not as, or maybe it's just pockets. Like maybe it's, cause you know, we're both in the South. So like maybe that is still just like a regional type of thing. Cause yeah, cause I've seen so many things like, you know, pink seven and like, what is it? Daybreaker. think it is where they're doing.

Mara DeMauro (28:34)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm... Yeah... Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

Renee (28:50)
9 a.m., 10 a.m. jam coffee sessions and stuff like that. And that just isn't really happening here. So it's a completely different sort of community. But I think this is exactly why we need to have these conversations because of that.

Mara DeMauro (28:58)
Right, right.

Right.

Exactly. ⁓ it's so funny. I was talking to a friend the other day and she's like, I visited Charleston. She's like, I didn't realize like what a big drinking like town it is. Like everything's revolved around drinking. And I'm like, really? And I'm like, really? Cause in my mind, like every city is like, I don't know. Like I've, mean, I've lived in places that are like, I'm from Miami, you know, I, I live in, you know, Boulder, Colorado. And then I,

Renee (29:24)
Yeah.

Ugh, yeah. ⁓

Mara DeMauro (29:34)
Charleston and Savannah. And so like all of these places booze is just like there. So I'm assuming like every place is like that, but I understand. Yes, it's probably the norm, but I'm sure there are pockets that are a little bit more quote unquote progressive and inclusive, ⁓ around alternatives. And to go back on what you were saying about, like, I think it's funny that, you know, we forget that we are the ones.

who have the dial on how deep we go into something. So ⁓ here we are, we're presenting a topic about sober curiosity or we're offering a workshop ⁓ about sober curiosity.

Renee (30:09)
Hmm.

Mara DeMauro (30:19)
people dial how deep they want to go with it. We don't choose, you know, to make someone go deeper than they want to go. That's up to everyone on their own terms. You know, we're just this and that's the gray area. That's the space. How can we talk about these things without fucking getting pinged up and upset and uptight and freaked out? It's like, let's, let's just chat like, yo.

Renee (30:26)
Yeah.

Mmm, yeah.

I know.

Mara DeMauro (30:47)
This is literally everywhere. Let's just, let's talk about it. That's it. You know, like we're right. Like it's not that scary. I promise. I mean, it does feel scary. I get it. But like, just hold someone's hand. Who's there for you to talk about it. And then you realize, ⁓ I can do this actually. Not too bad.

Renee (30:51)
Why is it such a thing? Yeah.

Yeah, it's like

that sense of relief. Anytime that you're facing something that is so uncomfortable, the buildup is worse than the outcome a lot of the time. And I think that this is the same exact thing. And your story reminds me of a story that I had with someone I was talking to at my hair salon about this venture of our business and what we're trying to do. And the first thing she said was,

yeah, well, I think that, you know, a local church does AA, like you could go and like talk to them. And I just said, okay, like thanks for the, you know, of course I'm like, not gonna be like, that's not the point. But yeah, but it's just, I, and I just said, okay, yeah, thanks. You know, I'll, I'll definitely look into that, da da da. But it's just still a topic that you just say alcohol and people are like, ⁓ sober or AA.

Mara DeMauro (31:48)
Right, right.

Right. Right. Yeah. alcohol, not me. Nope. Like over there, pass it over there. It's so interesting. ⁓ I heard a quote, I don't know. I'm like terrible with citing shit. I'm like, I heard a quote, but I did. I heard a quote that was like the, the healing is in what we're avoiding something like that. And yeah, it's so, it's so true. Like if you are feeling any resistance and not just around this with anything, it's like.

Renee (32:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I know, me too.

Mara DeMauro (32:32)
Then that's telling you something. It's communicating like, Hey, there's some part of you that's wanting attention in that area. You know, so like, hold your hand, give yourself a hug and go have a chat, go, go on a walk and I don't know, talk with it. That's it.

Renee (32:48)
Yeah,

figure some shit out. Yeah. But I think this is what also excites me about what we're trying to do and just trying to get out there because it just gives people the permission. It gives people the platform. It gives people the opportunity to dip a toe into an atmosphere that might be very scary for them. But I think that's part of growth and you're not

Mara DeMauro (32:50)
Yeah.

Renee (33:15)
going to change if you don't make changes. So whatever that looks like for you, moderation, fully sober, you know, there's no right or wrong answer. It's just taking that first step to even ask the question and get in the room with people who you can talk to about this stuff. You can feel comfortable and kind of take that wall down. And even if you don't have the wall down, even if you just come in and

sit and listen. You know, a lot of times you don't even have to say shit. You can just come in here and be like, hey, I just want to hear what other people are going through and see if it resonates at all. Because when you're in this spiral and you're in this shame and you don't want people to know, it's a very secluded and sad cave to be in. And I've been there.

Mara DeMauro (33:57)
factors.

Yeah.

Renee (34:14)
I understand that I get waking up on a fricking Saturday and Sunday morning perpetually hung over being like, God damn it. I did it again. I did it again. Why? Why do I keep doing the same thing? Like, who can I talk to you about this? That's yeah. And who am I going to talk to you about this? That's not going to be like, you tried AA? ⁓ I'm like, no, it doesn't. That's not sitting for me. Like, so I didn't think there was any other way, but

Mara DeMauro (34:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Groundhog Day.

Alright.

Renee (34:44)
There are multiple ways, there's multiple paths, there's multiple options, which I know can be overwhelming for people too. But you gotta get in there and you gotta try it out to see what's gonna work for you.

Mara DeMauro (34:51)
Mm-hmm.

Right,

100 % agree. Yeah, I mean, on that topic, July is right around the corner here and dry July is the thing. We love making things for things, like every day is a holiday type of thing. So, here's another opportunity to try on the Sober Curiosity hat. we have a really fun and special offer for you all if this is something that you are

Renee (35:09)
Yeah, talk about labels. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (35:24)
willing and wanting to experiment with. So, Ney, want to tell us a little bit about that?

Renee (35:29)
Yeah, for sure. So as Mara said, Dry July coming up, our self-led course is usually $97. It's a five month self-led course all about sober curiosity, taking that dive into what that looks like for you. ⁓ We poured our hearts and souls in it. I actually went through the program essentially like.

when it first came out. ⁓ So yeah, I mean, I really love it. I think it's a lot of value added. We put a lot of resources in there and things that you can take away. ⁓ So with code dry July, if you go to our website, I'll link everything of course, in our show notes, we are offering $47.

$40 off with that code, so it is making our five month self-led course for $57. So that is only going to be offered through the weekend of the 4th of July. So yeah, get on that, because honestly, I don't know if that's probably gonna be the cheapest it might ever be. So definitely hop on that.

Mara DeMauro (36:31)
Right, right.

Renee (36:33)
Um, let us know if you have any complications with that. And then on top of that, we wanted to also let you guys know we are doing a free workshop called sip happens on July 22nd at 7 PM Eastern. We are partnering with launch break, which is something that's very near and dear to my heart too. It is the networking platform for women athletes. used to play division one, lacrosse, still keep up with it.

love sports, love fitness, and they are partnering with us hosting this free workshop. So this is the perfect time for you. If you are curious at all, feel like you're a gray area drinker, feel like you just want to sit and chat with us, get some good tips, ask your questions, it's the perfect time to do that. So we'll link that in the show notes too. Did I miss anything Mara?

Mara DeMauro (37:25)
Awesome. Super stoked for that.

No, you're just on it. Boom, boom, boom. You got it. ⁓ yeah. Thanks again for, ⁓ throwing up here. If you're, if you're listening, we, greatly appreciate it. We helped to, mean, if just one person takes away anything from, you know, what we share and how we try to help, we are doing what we're meant to be doing. ⁓ please reach out. ⁓ you can find me on Instagram at Mara DiMaro and Nay.

Where can people find you?

Renee (37:57)
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at coach underscore r Adams. You can also follow us for our nose dive account at nose dive co and also on the tick tock at the same thing. ⁓ and you guys were on YouTube. We're tick tocks and YouTube, dude. This is crazy. So not only can you listen to us with your ears, but you can now visually see us on YouTube too. So super excited about that. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (38:12)
⁓

Amazing. Amazing.

Renee (38:27)
Alright dude, well, till next time!

Mara DeMauro (38:28)
All right, until next time. Ciao. Bye.

Renee (38:32)
Bye.